1. Gradually raise the age at which women can become pregnant to 18
2. Correlate mens’ sperm count with their IQ and compassion levels
3. Phase out some of the nastier diseases
4. Cause a few dictators and despots to come to a violent and messy death
5. Reduce the climate extremes we are experiencing
6. Make a bit more water available in the places that really need it
7. Drop a viable concept or two for clean transport into the heads of a few
scientists
8. Ensure said scientists have access to research funds
9. Gradually build an aversion in people to nicotine
10. Enable better logical reasoning skills in people
He could do all of these things without having to ‘give himself away’ by demonstrating his existence. It seems he has a problem with publicity. He likes to be worshipped but doesn’t like to put in the personal appearances these days. It’s understandable. He is getting old.
These simple measures would ensure a better quality of life for millions. Of course some of you may be looking at the list and thinking that God is already 'On the case'. What would you add to the list?
14 comments:
Many (indeed most) of that list are things that depend on human actions and attitudes. Why should we expect God to intervene in those things? Indeed, is it really desirable that he does? It seems to me your merely moving the responsibility of humanity to act appropriately away from us.
Ach, an apostrophe error. I hate it when people misuse or miss out apostrophes and I've just gone and done it myself.
If the humans won't do it because it isn't a vote willer or doesn't have a bottom-line profit, then it is unlikely to get done.
On the whole, humans are not responsible. We are messing-up the planet for all life as we destroy it like the nasty infectious virus that we have become.
Meanwhile, your god sits back and watches. Perhaps we will have some pestilence or major smiting some time soon to even out the balance a little.
On what occasions would you expect God to intervene? Does this mean that you accept praying is pointless?
As for the apostrophe error. I never even noticed.
Hi Phil
I think it's wrong to sit back and blame God for humans being lazy and ignorant or expect him to clear up after them. A poor analogy might be to expect a parent to clean up after their 30 year old son. I'm not sure you can claim that humanity is not responsible for what we've become (indeed, when did we become this "nasty infectious virus"?). Should murderers and rapists be let off because that's what they've become and they can't help it?
One thing to remember, however, is that Christians don't believe that this earth is all that there is - justice will be done as we enter the next life which will even the balance out.
I don't accept that praying is pointless and I do believe that God intervenes, but that doesn't mean that we can reject our responsibilities.
As for the apostrophe, I noticed it and that's enough!
Matt
I am asserting that God the designer didn't do a very good job and if not rectified, there will be many more starving and otherwise victimised people in the world. Presumably God knew this would eventually happen so how can he not be responsible?
God went around killing and enslaving people, causing pestilence and disease in the OT. What kind of message is that to pass on to those he created in his likeness? The OT god was not a nice god at all, but then he wasn't written-up to be nice. He was Yaweh, the Jewish god of war.
Your god has nothing new to say. His silence is deafening. I know this is because he cannot exist but you choose to ignore the evidence and continue to believe in some form of xtian invisible benefactor.
As for the next life, have you considered exactly how that will work? No body and presuming missing loved ones may be burning in Hell. What would you do for ever? Eternity is a very long time.
Have you read what the bible says about Heaven?
God the designer gave us free will. Personally I think that's a good thing, but you obviously don't. I'd rather not be an automaton, I'd rather have the ability to make mistakes (you learn from them and it develops your character) and be an individual. If we were mere machines than we wouldn't be humans.
God's actions as depicted in the OT are the result of his desire for justice, punishing those who do wrong. I haven't, so far, found a single place in the Bible where God's actions are unprovoked. Some of his actions are very, very difficult to understand and accept and they are very challenging, I agree, but I think it ultimately tells us something about his sense of justice and the seriousness of the rebellion and wrong committed by those whom he punishes. Is this not the kind of intervention you were suggesting was necessary in your original post in order to put humanity back on the right track?
I have to say, I believe because of evidence, not in spite of it. In fact I became a Christian as a history student and looked at the documentary evidence for Jesus in the same way I would any other historical source. As for God's silence, I have in the past seen him act in my own life and in the life of others and have no doubt in those occasions that it was him. I'm actually quite sceptical and don't accept these things too lightly. Many Christians would say that I were too sceptical.
I don't ignore evidence and I find it interesting that you feel able to make this judgement about me based on... no evidence whatsoever. You know nothing about me. Interesting.
I've come to the conclusion that you think I'm an idiot. I am well aware that eternity is a very long time, one of the reasons that the suffering and injustice on this earth will seem momentary and unimportant.
Do I feel sad thinking about my loved ones who I believe are in Hell? Yes, very much so. Will I in Heaven? I think it's a good question and a difficult one to answer, for Revelation indeed says there will be no more tears there. I think we'll be so overcome with joy at knowing God that that will seem far more important.
Have I read what the Bible has to say about Heaven? Err... Yes, I'd be silly to want to go somewhere I know nothing about. What's your point?
Yours,
Matt
The problem with free will and pre-determination is best explained by my friend Rosa Rubicondior here http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.com/2010/11/on-omniscience-and-free-will.html
God's actions in the OT are disgraceful and inexcusable. I would never choose to worship such a god.
You begin with belief and look for evidence to assert that belief. Most christians I debate were either brainwashed into the faith as children or had some major life event that turned them to god.
If you had been born of Muslim parents, you would be worshiping Allah. It is that fickle.
As for Heaven, as I recall, it is a cube where angels and dragons fight. Revelation here: http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm
No more tears? Will god pump you up with morphine or ecstacy so you can't feel the pain? There is no rhyme or reason to what you believe but you need to believe it so bad, you will deny your own intelligence.
Regarding free will, the arguments on the blog to which you posted a link are based on premises with which I don't agree. There isn't room to go into it here, but there are philosophers who have gone into the issue in much greater detail and counter the writer's arguments very easily who I could recommend you read.
I also find many of God's actions disagreeable, but that's because God's sense of right and wrong is much greater than my own. Perhaps it says something about our apathy towards rebellion towards God and our mistreatment of others? Again, let me posit the question I asked earlier which you tactfully ignored - should murderers and rapists be let off? God's sense of right and wrong doesn't believe that any wrongdoing should be let off unless that person accepts they've done wrong and changes - the OT God is the same as the NT God, and we see his love here in his willingness to forgive those who deserve death and even takes that punishment on himself. You can't divorce the two and the punishments he gives in the OT show just how big a thing it is to forgive.
Your comment regarding the faith of my parents is absurd. How can you suggest I'd be a Muslim if my parents were Muslims? You have no idea what faith, if any, my parents are. It is also absurd to claim that I looked for evidence to support a belief I already had. How do you know this? Again, you know nothing of my life and as such are in no position to make such a claim. Can we discuss on the basis of facts, please, rather than supposition and guesswork?
Even where people have been brought up by Christian parents or have had a life event which has brought them to Christ (what constitutes a "major life event" anyway - I'd say coming to Christ in itself is a major life event, it changes your entire worldview) that doesn't mean that the belief that people come to is false. The logic behind it is based upon circular reasoning, that is, that Christianity is false and a nothing other than a crutch. It seems that you search for evidence which supports what you already believe, the very thing you accuse me of.
I have to add that of the many Christians I know who do have Christian parents, the vast majority of them have come to the decision by themselves and have gone through periods of deep questioning before arriving there. There's no brainwashing involved and it's ridiculous for you to suggest it based simply on supposition.
Are you seriously basing an argument on a website that likens Heaven to the Borg?? Come on, get real. The 1500 mile size is based on a vision which by far the vast majority of scholars accept as analogy and can't be taken as a literal indication of Heaven's size. Seriously, if this website is what you base your view of Heaven on let me suggest you read a couple of academic works on the subject. Even Dawkins doesn't go that far. Seriously, you accept this website unquestioningly and yet criticise me for believing that the Bible, which consists of a series of (mostly) historically verifiable documents and which countless scholars far more intelligent than you or I have considered, wrestled with, debated and written about for two millennia? Perhaps rather than reading crank websites you should actually read Revelation and the other Biblical texts on Heaven and make your own mind up based on what's actually written there.
Will God need to pump me full of drugs to make me happy? If you need drugs to make you happy I'm really sorry, but I don't. There's a very good analogy here and it's one that comes from NT texts. When someone marries someone they're absolutely crazy about are they happy or sad? Even if they're aware of bad things in their life, they're still happy. That is Heaven, being united with the God you love for ever. That is why there'll be no tears in Heaven. It's not manipulation by any means, it's natural happiness...
...As for needing to believe something so much I deny my own intelligence - my faith and the faith of almost every Christian I know is based upon rational thought and most Christians I know take a rational approach to it. Some don't and few, I accept are downright bonkers. But some of history's most important thinkers have been Christians and scholars have wrestled with the issues of Christianity for centuries, really digging in great detail into the issues which you've brought up and flippantly rejected here. Rather than deny their intelligence, they exercise it to understand it. Indeed, you need to really think and think hard to grasp some of the concepts of Christianity. Do you wish to suggest, for example, that the Trinity can be understood without the exercise of a good deal of brainpower? Perhaps people reject Christianity too quickly because they don't bother to use their intelligence and actually properly test its claims, simply assuming, as you do here, that there's no evidence, that it's followers have been brainwashed, or that they've been brought up to think that way.
You say I need to believe something so much I deny my own intelligence, yet you're basing arguments on crazy websites likening Heaven to Star Trek which doesn't even approach the Biblical book it's analysing in the context in which scholars accept it should be read and assume certain things about people simply because they're Christian. Perhaps I'm not the one denying my intelligence. Just a thought.
All the best.
Yours,
Matt
I don't accept a website as unquestioningly as you accept God and the next life.
History is littered with dead gods. How can you presume that you worship the "One true god"? I can't do your comments justice now but I will reply tomorrow.
How many times do I have to say this? I did not, I repeat, did not accept God or the next life unquestioningly.
Regarding believing God is the "one true God" - I make no presumptions. It's something I've thought about and considered and of all the religions I know anything about Christianity is the only one that makes sense. I think you'll be hard pushed to find any aspect of my faith that I've unquestioningly accepted or haven't considered - if it's something I'm basing my entire life on I'd be really pretty stupid not to.
Please, give me a little credit and avoid assuming I'm a brainwashed idiot.
Yours,
Matt
There's the rub. It is something you are basing your entire life on. How do you begin to admit to yourself that you got it wrong? It must be nearly impossible. Better to maintain the lie at any cost.
I am 50 this year. The best of my life is gone. I may live another year or another 50 years but I am in decline. When I die, that is then end of me. I am worm food or fried. I celebrate every day I am alive because it may be my last.
I know there is no god, no creator and no benefactor. I happened this way by an accident of evolution. I am so fortunate to have existed and been able to reflect on that. Life is a wonderful experience for some of us.
Phil, I'm still amazed at how seem to think that because I base my life on it I can't come to the conclusion it's not true. I looked in great depth at this BEFORE I accept it. I continue to look at it. Your problem is your reasoning is circular.
In the same way, you avoid confronting the arguments in favour and simply make simplistic comments based on... presupposition rather than logic resulting from suitable premises. In all honesty, your assumptions indicate extreme arrogance.
"Life is a wonderful experience for some us." So why not get on and enjoy rather than worrying about what God could have done better?
Yours,
Matt
I thik he should add
"Stop listening to those dumb mortals with their stupid ideas and blaming it all on me when it all goes wrong."
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