Hey Philip G, thanks for taking the time to drop by in such a small humble blog to comment. Appreciate you and your comments. Keep them coming.
There is always this debate to ask the people of any faith to show proof of the existence of “their” God. It is always based on evidence, “show me then I will believe”. Of course, it makes so much sense to do that.
Let me go on…
The question is how can faith be a real experience and not just a figment of imagination?
Through our lives, day in and day out, even the most mundane of things. It’s just not all about preaching, evangelism party to “convert” people, or bible studies. It is also about lending a listening ear to a friend to show concern, being with a person who has just lost his loved one’s, in other words, showing love in the most tangible of ways, not just through words, but through mouth.
You need a god to be considerate to others?
The faith must be experienced through our hearts, not through the logics in our minds.
Faith and logic are not good bedfellows.
So, with this common question, “show me a proof of your God” can be easily answered with a question in return, “show me a proof He doesn’t exist?”
I don’t have to prove a negative. Do I need to prove that the Earth is not flat, that fairies don’t live at the bottom of the garden, that Allah is not the one true god?
The debate of logics and philosophy can go on and on, but the end of day, how do we live our lives, are we missing something in our lives, how’s your relationship with your family members, those kind of questions which is far more important.
My relationship with my family members is pretty rubbish at the moment. Are you saying it would be better if I believed in your god?
If you can live life to the fullest without God, why not? That is your personal choice. There is no criticism on that and trying to ‘coax’ you to believe something that u are missing something.
It’s a personal thing. Faith is personal. And, you can never take away the personal experience from anyone else no matter how ridiculous it may sound to the skeptics. It’s personal. Period.
Personal experience can be imagined. Anyone who believes in an invisible magic friend is deluded. God rarely seems to talk to groups of people or do anything to prove his existence. What would be different if he vanished?
But, through the lives of Christians who are imperfect in every way, we can honestly tell you, there is so much more to life when God is in the picture, in the center of our lives, so much more.
You would say that. “Imperfect in every way”. Strange choice of words. Is your god perfect? I think not. He is a lesser god in my book for all sorts of reasons. Visit my blog to read more on this.
Accepting Jesus is a personal choice. Believing Him is a personal choice. We are not going to even try to debate with you or for that matter, anyone else, about the existence of God, of why bad things happened if there is a God, because it is kinda pointless.
Indeed. Bad things happen because bad things happen. There is no meaning or ‘fate’.
Let’s say you win the debate. It still would not change the way we live our lives where we know and believe that we are meant to live with God in our lives, where we find purpose and meaning, not just for the sake of going heaven u know.
Heaven is the last place I would want to go. Do you understand the concept of eternity?
Le’s say we (Christian) win the debate. It still would not change the way you live your life or change your perception because in your heart you already make up your mind to not believe anyway.
I take drugs, drink too much, swear, covet my neighbour’s ox, support my local community, do voluntary work and try to ‘put something back’. And I’m a heathen!
There is no reason to justify our faith.
We show it. As imperfect as we are in showing it, we are trying by the grace of God, really.
What’s with the ‘perfection’ thing? Strive to get most things right most of the time, not to hurt people unnecessarily and to leave the world a slightly better place for you having walked on it. We are here but for the blink of an eye and when we are dead, we are gone for eternity.
We don’t know everything. That is why, we need God all the more.
We know much more than we did and we need god much less to explain the unknown.
There is very little that science cannot explain. God has been reduced to the ‘creator of the cosmos’ and the ‘breather of life’. He used to be do much more. Religion is dying. There are thousands of gods that were once worshipped with rivers of human blood and are now worshipped by no-one.
Cheers
Alvin Boey
4 comments:
(please leave your comment in my blog if you wish to comment, if any, cheers dude)
Hey Phil, again, appreciate your comments. Here is my take on your answers:
You need a god to be considerate to others?
- I believe in that human beings have a conscience to be good. It is up to a person whether they want to lead their lives based on that conscience. Where does it (conscience) come from? We believe it’s from God. Accordingly, the ability to not be distracted by so many things (example violence as purportedly being encouraged via the media, for example) and be good, would need the help from God to be good, to be the person that we are made to be. Sin came into the picture at the point of creation, and that changes everything. Humans bearing the consequences of sin i.e death, misery, etc. But the hope we Christians have is in Jesus, who came to redeem us from this penalty of sins, by bearing our sins.
Faith and logic are not good bedfellows.
- That is a good point. So, are you attempting to use logic to explain everything about life?
I don’t have to prove a negative. Do I need to prove that the Earth is not flat, that fairies don’t live at the bottom of the garden, that Allah is not the one true god?
- You are asking Christians to always prove the existence of God, so the idea of asking you in return to prove the non-existence of God would be logical.
- Even I manage to give you proof, your logical mind would not be able to accept it because of the unbelief in your heart. Cool with me if you don’t, because I am not here trying to convince you that He exists. I just know He does, through my life and through the reading of the Word. So the issue here is beyond evidence, but the unbelief inside your heart.
My relationship with my family members is pretty rubbish at the moment. Are you saying it would be better if I believed in your god?
- The life of faith enables us to be a better person. It is a progression and a journey. It’s not magic, that once u believe in Jesus, *POOF*, you will be good, everything will be rosy. It’s a progression to become a better person. That is the cool part about life, an adventure of discovering God. The outlook of life slowly to change as we begin to let God mould us through the nurturing of His Word. We will slowly begin to see things not from our own limited perspective. So, I would say yes, with the help of God, your relationships can be healed.
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Personal experience can be imagined. Anyone who believes in an invisible magic friend is deluded. God rarely seems to talk to groups of people or do anything to prove his existence. What would be different if he vanished?
- It is true that personal experience can be imagined. Agree. But, to put “believing in an invisible magic friend” together in the same category as “believing in God” I would be unfair, to say the least. I’ve never seen a person who believes in an invisible magic friend doing this (examples):
a. A foreigner going to a strange village in China, to tell them about the love of God, and in return, being martyred by the officials due to the strict enforcement of the no-religion policy. The motivation would be the love of God inside him (foreigner) to compel him to do such things.
b. Back home in Malaysia, the motivation again, to live life to the fullest by being a blessing to others by going to an area filled with poor people every Saturday to help, to be there listening to them (because according to the poor folks, they are too poor for people to even bother them), to clean their houses, etc. This genuine love for others is not driven by the delusional thoughts inside them. It takes a lot of change inside to be willing to go to these places, to put the interests of others above self.
Well, Jesus came to die on the cross for sinners like us, so that we can be redeemed from the consequences of sins and be returned back to God. The familiar passage in John 3:16, for God so loved the world, that HE gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believed, shall have eternal life. It is a personal choice to believe. If you don’t believe in Jesus, it is your choice, He doesn’t necessarily need to appear to you and tell you I am Lord. (although He can do that and did that with Paul in the Bible, and I pray He will do that). Although even if He did appear to you, you will consider that as an imagination. Again, the unbelief issue.
You would say that. “Imperfect in every way”. Strange choice of words. Is your god perfect? I think not. He is a lesser god in my book for all sorts of reasons. Visit my blog to read more on this.
- the life of a believer (in Jesus) is a journey to perfection. Only in Him, we can find perfection because He is a perfect God. The life of the believers around the world I admit may not be a good reflection of His nature, but that should not stop anyone to seek God for themselves in any means possible.
- If solely based on the actions of crappy Christians to determine whether you should believe God, then it would be unfortunate.
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Indeed. Bad things happen because bad things happen. There is no meaning or ‘fate’.
- True. I believe that God is a good God. I believe that God uses ALL things including the bad things (originated from our bad decisions, mostly) for our own good in the end. That does not mean bad things originate from him. Most of the time, it is our bad decisions that cause the most misery to ourselves, so we bear the consequences, but thankfully we have the hope in God, that He can use that bad moment and turn it around for our good (although we won’t see that at that point of time) as we put our trust in Him who is in control.
I take drugs, drink too much, swear, covet my neighbour’s ox, support my local community, do voluntary work and try to ‘put something back’. And I’m a heathen!
- The belief in God shapes us to become a better person. We are saved not because we do good things. We cannot save ourselves based on our good deeds. It’s only through Jesus, and what He did on the cross, that we can be saved from the consequences of our sins and a certain eternal death. We are saved FOR good works. Through this knowledge, the shaping of our hearts and mind in the belief of God help us to become a better person.
What’s with the ‘perfection’ thing? Strive to get most things right most of the time, not to hurt people unnecessarily and to leave the world a slightly better place for you having walked on it. We are here but for the blink of an eye and when we are dead, we are gone for eternity.
- We don’t strive to be perfect. That would be sad and depressing really because it ain’t going to happen, hahaha. But the journey to perfection in Christ is an adventure of a lifetime, to become the person who we are made to be.
- U are right about the blink of an eye that we are gone, like a flower quickly fading in the morning. Hence, the need to rely on God, and the promises that we will have eternal life in Him, that life on earth is part of that journey with God. There is more after life on earth, that is the promise we hold on to.
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There is very little that science cannot explain. God has been reduced to the ‘creator of the cosmos’ and the ‘breather of life’. He used to be do much more. Religion is dying. There are thousands of gods that were once worshipped with rivers of human blood and are now worshipped by no-one.
- Religion is dying. Agree. Religion with all its rituals won’t help anyone, really. You can come to church (for Christians), clock in clock out, fulfill a certain ritualistic duty in the hope to gain an entry into heaven. It doesn’t work that way. Again, the issue of we are not saved by our good works OR rituals. And for me at least, believing in God is NOT just about gaining an entry into heaven, it’s really about how God can use this my tiny miniscule insignificant life to fulfill His greater purpose. It’s about how I can let Him shape me, personally. To stress the point on having a life-on going personal relationship with Him.
- To suggest that we human being are so proud to think that God wants to have anything to do with us I believe is incorrect.
- The purpose we are created in the first place is because He wants to have a relationship with us, the fellowship and connection with Him. We are not created to be a slave or a toy to Him.
- He gave us free will. Man (adam & eve) use that free will to go against God through the influence of the infamous serpent by eating the fruit (not apple) and sin came. The relationship with God was then affected, severed because of sin.
- Men from there onwards tried to get back that relationship with God through their own means but failed miserably.
- The Son of God (Jesus), came and died on the cross and pay the price of our sins that we can never pay on our own, so that He can redeem us back to Him, that original purpose of relationship.
- Human blood, and human sacrifice is not required and can be used to pay that debt because of sin. Never.
- It takes the blood of Christ, who was holy, never sin, sin-less and innocent to go to that cross to die for us because He loves us.
- in the bible, it is always about God who gives FIRST, who loves us FIRST. Not the other way around. He GAVE his only begotten Son. He first loved us. The dying on the cross reflects that unconditional love, as long u believe, you are saved. Believe. The same issue-belief which I have explained earlier.
Hope this helps in anyway to gain a better understanding.
Cheers mate.
Alvin boey
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